In the first ever Women’s Center Podcast, Julia Gottlieb and I, Mj Jalloh-Jamboria, talked about the happenings of the 2015 VMA’s and prior happenings between Taylor Swift, Nicki Minaj, and Miley Cyrus. Our conversation reached interesting topics but mostly, after a brief recap of events, we dissected the reasons as to why Taylor and Miley felt entitled to their viewpoints, and how mainstream feminism and black feminism fit into the equation. We also briefly touched on respectability politics and the policing of black people. Enjoy the podcast and stay tuned for more!
After our conversation, and especially after The Women’s Center’s Roundtable on Critical Whiteness and White Womanhood, I’m thinking a lot about owning my white privilege. Many times in this podcast I referred to white women as “they.” I said, “they don’t see this, don’t know that, etc.” when I am part of that group as well. White women, as a group–we often miss the complexities of race entirely. And while I am committed to seeing and owning my race and privilege, in many ways I sometimes miss how race and class create different lives. What resonates with me from my conversation with MJ is that a man did not take Nicki’s spot, as Taylor Swift would say. A white woman took her spot. And if white women–if we ignore that, then we will continue to miss how Nicki Minaj’s life and place in the music industry is uniquely shaped by both her race and her gender.
A full transcript of the podcast is below.
Julia: Well hello there, students.
Julia: This is Feminism 101, with MJ. Hey, MJ.
MJ: Hey Julia.
Julia: Introduce yourself.
MJ: I am MJ, I am a student staff member–we are both student staff members, with the Women’s Center.
Julia: At UMBC.
MJ: Yeah. This is our first podcast..
Julia: So it’s going to take some getting used to.
MJ: [laughs] Yeah, it is.
Julia: We’re both Women’s Studies Majors, you also are majoring in Pathology. And…I’m Julia and I also work in the Women’s Center.
Okay so we’re talking about the Nicki Minaj/Taylor Swift, and then moving to the Nicki Minaj/Miley Cyrus interactions, um and…talking about why what Taylor did was awful, why what she said was not…
MJ: Not cool.
Julia: Not cool.
Julia: So initial reactions. What was your reaction when you first saw either Nicki’s or Taylor’s tweets? Or how did you hear about it?
MJ: I was on tumblr, as I often am… [laughs]
Julia: I think I was probably on Tumblr too, when it happened, yeah.
MJ: I think a lot of the news that I get is through Tumblr, and so I’m scrolling down and all of a sudden you know I refresh my page, because I’m like two weeks back already on my Tumblr dash and I refresh my page and what I see is screenshots of these tweets. And I was like, okay…so something’s happening with Nicki and I’m looking through and I go to one of my like favorite bloggers, or just a few of them, there is an array or a few black females that I follow on Tumblr who are absolutely cool and you know I’m looking at their posts and stuff and it’s screenshots of this interaction and there are some who had done the earlier tweets (Nicki’s tweets) which we’ll talk about in a second who had reblogged those and then there were some who had the interaction between Nicki and Taylor Swift and so I’m reading those and I’m just like, “okay, this happened..” and within a few minutes everything was Nicki Minaj/Taylor Swift. And it was so interesting to see that shift, you know. First I’m just reading a few tweets, and then all of a sudden, the entire thing was Nicki Minaj/Taylor Swift screenshots, reactions, and things of that nature.
Julia: Wow. And then what was your reaction? Like your attitude about Taylor or…
MJ: Well okay, actually I’ve never really been a big fan of Taylor Swift. But reading these comments, I sort of–and I didn’t really blame it on her–you know, that’s her reaction to something and she thought someone was talking about her, whatever, what have you. But what that sort of — when this happened what I first thought of was, some people are very quick to jump to conclusions, and then I looked at this in a different framework and I thought of white feminism versis black feminism, or just white feminism versus maybe a more intersectional type of feminism and how I knew that my fellow intersectionalists and womanists and feminists on Tumblr were very quick to start this discourse. It was very interesting as soon as that happened. But I want to hear what your initial reactions were first.
Julia: Well I was on Tumblr too, I’m pretty sure. And I remember seeing somebody writing about it and I hadn’t seen any screenshots yet and I was like, “so there is something happening with Nicki…” and then I went to Nicki’s twitter and luckily it was right around the time of the tweets so I didn’t have to scroll back as much, it was the 21st of July or something like that and then I saw everything, I saw what Taylor said, and then I went back to Tumblr and then that’s when I saw all the screenshots and there was one particular post that was kind of like a masterpost of everything and also it was critiquing white feminism in general but the first thing I thought was like, “Oh god. Everybody’s going to side with Taylor,” you know what I mean…
MJ: Oh, yeah.
Julia: Like the majority of the people are going to side with Taylor and I was just like “We’re doing this again.” And um, looking back now at Taylor’s tweet–you know, if you’re listening you probably know what happened, we don’t want to read every single tweet but, the tweet Taylor wrote was like “I’ve done nothing but love and support you. It’s unlike you to pit women against each other..” and then she says, “Maybe one of the men took your slot..” and looking back on that now I’m like, that is like really telling about how the only oppressor that white women see is men. “Maybe one of the men took your slot.” Nicki is like, the white women are taking my slot, you need to understand that…you’re getting the award for something I did as well. Like I’m not being recognized and I deserve to be recognized.
MJ: I didn’t even think about that part.
Julia: Like, Taylor doesn’t even see that race is an issue. She doesn’t even see it. That makes me reflect and remember that men are not the only oppressors, it’s talking about race, too.
MJ: Really quickly, that just speaks to feminism versus intersectionality or I guess I should I say mainstream white feminism as opposed to intersectionality and how [Taylor] was very quick, right, she was very quick to throw a man under the bus instead of thinking about the systems of oppression that led Taylor to getting the nomination or a nomination as opposed to Nicki, for equally awesome work.
Julia: All of the other nominations were white people too, um…Ed Sheeran…oh, the only one who was not white was Beyonce, and that was another conversation about like what is the difference..the wider acceptance of Beyonce vs Nicki Minaj.
MJ: Oh yeah, respectability politics maybe.
Julia: Yeah…Beyonce is always whitewashed and maybe Beyonce accepts that.
MJ: I completely agree.
Julia: But like you said before, because we’ve talked about this before, [Beyonce & Nicki] are very similar. There’s not a big difference. They talk about the same thing.
MJ: Yeah, they do. And Beyonce actually, Beyonce and Jay-Z I should say, bailed out a lot of Black Lives Matter protesters um, and I think it was in Ferguson. But you know, not so long ago it was sometime during this year or the end of last year…and then Nicki Minaj, I think they’re taking on different fronts of activism, but they are still doing a lot.
Julia: I think that Beyonce and Jay-Z insist on anonymity when they do it..I think they’re also trying or did buy the rights to the confederate flag..so people can’t reproduce the image.
MJ: The confederate flag, I remember that, oh yeah.
Julia: So it’s like, that’s pretty amazing. So I think, I mean, maybe Beyonce is less threatening, because Nicki attacks–but that’s a good thing, though! That’s the thing.
MJ: But also listen to their music! And I hope we can talk about it, can we talk about this here? Yeah, let’s divulge and digress and then come back. But you know Beyonce’s music is pop music and she takes it into a different type of genre and it can go slow and it can go fast but Beyonce’s never really rapping at you. Nicki raps, I mean, Nicki is the best, at least right now, the best female black rapper.
Julia: I agree. So intelligent. You have to understand that rapping is so…it’s so intelligent.
MJ: It is, definitely. It takes a lot to rap and to put the rhyme into it. To put it into music. Because you’re also describing a culture, an experience, you’re describing something–it’s basically poetry. So is music, of course.
Julia: It’s poetry. It’s really poetry. I’m just amazed at Nicki Minaj–she’s so smart. I think that a lot of people don’t know that she takes care of her whole family, and she’s such a perfectionist. Cause I watched the latest documentary about her, and I just have so much respect for her. And the tweets weren’t even that angry and she’s being painted as like… [sighs]
MJ: Yeah. Can we look at the tweets? Let’s look at a few. We’ll look at the last couple of them um, so the first one goes, and this was July 21st, of this year, 2015, at 2:39pm. “If your video celebrates women with very slim bodies you will be nominated for video of the year” and she added multiple smiley faces. And after that, this was the last one “I’m not always confident. Just tired. Black women influence pop culture so much but are rarely rewarded for it.” Nowhere in this, is Taylor Swift, or any other person, named, called out…
Julia: And while Taylor Swift is implied, Nicki wasn’t talking about her directly. [Nicki’s] tired. I’m trying to form words I’m just so angry. She’s talking about the industry and she’s talking about the racism of pop culture in general, and then Taylor just makes it about her.
MJ: I really like that sentence there, “Black women influence pop culture so much but are rarely rewarded for it.”
Julia: And it’s evident in the [VMA] nominations.
MJ: Yeah, it’s evident in the nominations, it’s evident in style, we could talk about Kylie Jenner and her lips, and she’s a child, she just turned 18, and yes okay, she is a child but also these are things, this is a privilege that…we look at these fashionistas and this is what people are emulating however these black girls are getting, especially black girls–I remember as a kid getting made fun of for having bigger lips or having bigger hips or having a butt, you know what I mean..being hypersexualized at the age of 7. Whereas these young girls as well, cause Kylie Jenner was just 17, can do it and…
Julia: Are praised for it.
MJ: Yeah, exactly there you go. Are praised for it. Looking a certain way.
Julia: Wanting to embody the features, but not the culture.
Julia: Or wanting to have the look but not the baggage that comes with it.
MJ: I completely agree I think everyone wants to sort of wear the costume..
Julia: Have the aesthetic without dealing with the racism, the bullying and the discrimination. I mean the fact that Kylie has cornrows, and being praised for that while other black women being fired for their jobs because of their hair. And then later, we can get into it now, talking about Miley Cyrus, you know, saying the comments that she said [about Nicki] and then being at the VMAs rolling her eyes at Nicki while wearing dreads.
MJ: Yeah. She had faux dreads on, or in I guess you could say, um and dreads if I can talk about them pretty briefly. I myself have dreads, they’re not very long and soon they’re going to be purple which my mom will be a little upset about but whatever. Dreads are something that, well in my family, we–everyone has dreads in our family. I was raised Muslim but my dad is Rastafarian, a lot of my family are Rastafarians and they believe heavily in the beauty of dreads and why we have them and things of that nature but I remember my dad after he finished nursing school and anesthesiology school he had a colleague and a professor tell him, you know, “We as black men do not have the privilege of going into an interview with our dreads or with our beard and being seen as non-threatening.” And you know, my dad having to cut off his dreads, you know, that’s a big thing. You know, Black men very quickly being seen as threatening or dangerous because we have dreads, you know. And it’s just like..you are taking the culture. Dreads are not only a black thing but specifically bringing that back to the Rastafarian movement and anything associated with Rastafarians in general um, is so often blacklisted, you know what I mean. I was just like yeah, you are taking the culture, you’re wearing the culture and then mocking the culture. You don’t want the consequences nor do you want to talk about the racism.
Julia: The racism that goes along with the culture. There’s so much less risk. I think this also applies to you know celebrities because money protects them but mainly with white women there is so much less risk– you are never seen as unprofessional, you’re never seen as lazy, you’re never hypersexualized, you know what I mean. For white women, it’s so easy to ignore [the racism]. It’s so fucked up.
MJ: I completely agree.
Julia: And I think it’s interesting like, how simultaneously black men are both like deemed as lazy at the same time as they’re deemed as dangerous. These dangerous stereotypes are contradicting one another.
MJ: They definitely are.
Julia: I just don’t understand. Because I think about my aunt who I was talking to about racism, always a risk with family members–and she was like “Yeah racism isn’t over but when [black people] are late to [their] job, and when [they] don’t do anything, when [they’re] just being lazy” you know talking about black people being lazy. I’m like do you understand that [that idea] is left over from slavery and from jim crow, like do you understand that your notions of black people are entirely constructed and entirely constructed to keep racism going?
MJ: There was this great Tumblr post, and it was like, “black people were seen or were deemed lazy once we stopped working for free.” And I was just. They’re alluding to slavery. And I was like “They did it! It wasn’t me!” And I was like wow…you know what I mean?
Julia: [laughs] Oh my god. Wow! That is..I mean it’s true!
MJ: It’s pretty intense but it’s very true. I think the whole idea of the welfare mothers or whatever, you know black women are always…”they don’t do anything, they’re just waiting for their welfare checks,” you know what I mean?
MJ: And I just like…that post was perfect, it was spot on. And also, there is nothing wrong with being on welfare. But you have to realize that again the systems of oppression that keep people on welfare, and keep people in poverty.
Julia: And white people are also on welfare.
MJ: Aren’t the majority of the people on welfare white mothers? It’s like, people need welfare.
Julia: And yet the stereotype is about…
MJ: Yeah, is about black welfare queens.
Julia: Actually I was reading about public housing in Baltimore, and it talked about how public housing used to be seen as a good thing and then eventually as time went on, it became an awful thing and then black mothers were blamed for everything, because they were like it’s the responsibility of the black father to come in and at the same time black women shouldn’t work. But they’ve been working forever. They can’t have the same kind of respect white women have for not working.
MJ: I remember talking about public housing in Dr. Kate’s class, Dr. Kate Drabinski is a Gender and Women’s Studies professor here at UMBC.
Julia: You should definitely take a class with her if you can.
MJ: Yeah. She’s amazing. I remember talking about racial segregation and housing segregation and segregation in schools in that Gender and Women’s Studies 200 class. Dr. Kate touched a lot on that.
But I guess we can get back to what exactly happened at the VMA’s and the point that Nicki was trying to make. There’s an article here, and we’ll just go over what Miley Cyrus said in reaction to the Taylor Swift/Nicki Minaj interaction on Twitter.
“‘People forget that the choices that they make and the way they treat people in life will affect you in a really big way,’ Cyrus told the Times. ‘If you do things with an open heart and you come at things with love you would be heard and I would respect your statement. But I don’t respect your statement because of the anger that came with it. If you want to make it about race, there’s a way that you can do that, you don’t have to make it about yourself. You could say, ‘this is the reason it’s important to be nominated. There are girls everywhere with this body type.'”
Julia: And it’s really interesting because we just earlier read the tweet from Nicki, “I’m not always confident. Just tired. Black women influence pop culture so much and are rarely rewarded for it.” That’s literally what Miley said Nicki didn’t do. But she did… [laughs]
MJ: Right. But she did….
Julia: So I think one thing is it’s a little idiotic, first of all.
MJ: Just misinformed. Like come on, can you..
Julia: I don’t know if Miley actually even read the tweet.
MJ: I don’t think so either.
Julia: That actually is really interesting, I don’t think that Miley would’ve read the tweets at all
MJ: Right because [Nicki] is angry in them of course
Julia: (laughs) Automatically angry
MJ: And I think that speaks to …like, are black people not allowed to be angry? Because of course, we are threatening and dangerous
Julia: Already, by virtue of existing, as a black person…
MJ: Right! Like, anger is something I’ve talked to a lot of people about, be it my friends and roommates, who are all black, as well as I am, and friends and people I hang out with. And they are so often scared of, and we talked about this too, of being the black angry woman, or the black angry man, or the black angry person, the black angry what have you. And how, in a work setting, my dad is afraid to raise his voice, you know? Maybe not raise his voice, because I don’t really see the need for that but maybe to voice his opinions perhaps. Or in class how
easily, a friend of mine, my roommate will be… you know, people won’t listen to her
Julia: Taken seriously?
MJ: Yes, exactly, there you go! Taken seriously. I’m just like, you know, not only are we not taken seriously but we are so afraid of that stereotype being projected on to us of being the black angry person
Julia: [Which stops you from] speaking up in the first place. Which is really, really awful.
Julia: One of the blog titles I was thinking of when we were both separately working on this blog (before we came up with the podcast idea) was “White Feminism or Why Nicki Minaj Will Never be Taken Seriously.” It’s interesting how she won’t be taken seriously because of her anger. I think that goes back to the emotional piece – I don’t have to take anyone’s emotions seriously and the same thing can be said about [white] women in feminism in general…we are discriminated against, we don’t have equal treatment, and the accusation of being over-emotional is used against us. But I think it’s a whole new level with especially race and gender with black women in particular – you’re combating both the stereotypes of blackness and the stereotypes of gender, so it’s even harder. That’s why intersectionality is so important- I can’t be like “It’s exactly the same as white women saying that they’re not being treated equally and being ridiculed” because it’s not the same thing. And again I think it’s not as much of a risk, there’s no risk.
MJ: I agree. It’s even harder.
Julia:Being white and being a woman is a lot less riskier than being black and being a woman. And I think that…I don’t know where the lack of recognition of that with Miley and with Taylor…I think if you don’t look for it, if you don’t look for these classes…you may never know. But Miley and Taylor totally fail to see the race aspect of it. And that’s the other thing, Miley is policing how Nicki talks about race because Miley is black? Wait, no, she’s not.
MJ: Well, going back to what you were saying, we are, women specifically are immediately discredited as soon as emotion comes into it. And then, like you were saying-there is that double blockade when black women–because they are black and because they are emotional, because anger is an emotion–it is, “Okay I’m going to turn myself off to you because you’re angry right now, and because of this blackness I don’t want to listen to you. My feelings might get hurt in this discussion so I’m going to turn myself off to you and not talk about this.”
Julia: White feelings.
MJ: Just immediately discredited whenever we want to talk about anything.
Julia: So then your valid points…It’s like, the white people who are afraid of their feelings being hurt…that becomes the reason why they don’t have to take you seriously, why they don’t have to listen to your genuine concerns. Miley completely ignores Nicki’s genuine concerns… “Black women influence pop culture so much, but are rarely rewarded for it.” (Nicki). She literally wrote that out…that is her legitimate concern, that is her speaking on racism and sexism together in pop culture, and Miley completely misses it.
MJ: Miley is coming at it with an angry framework herself and I think maybe that is the anger Miley is talking about, because there is no anger in Nicki’s tweets.
Julia: I remember, somewhere I read that when black women are just speaking they are read as angry.
MJ: Oh, yeah.
Julia: If they’re speaking unemotionally…
MJ: Or even passionately!
Julia: You talked about that too, like, passion as opposed to anger.
MJ: It’s so easily mistaken for anger.
Julia: I think that’s also really awful how that’s turned back around, people using that perceived anger as another way to confirm that black women and black men are violent. It’s a very vicious cycle.
Julia: Nicki’s point is important because it’s not something that is not acknowledged very often…by celebrities. Put it that way.
MJ: Yeah! I think there are few celebrities in the game, you know, in the business, speaking to these injustices. Something this reminds me of is…I can’t remember what award show it was…it was the Oscars or Grammys perhaps…and it was John Legend and the rapper Common. They’re doing their thing up on stage, singing the song they did together for the film Selma, which was the biopic about Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King–and there was this white actor crying in the audience.
Julia: They talked about Black Lives Matter, didn’t they?
MJ: Yeah! There are very few role models, people who are okay to break that silence, I guess.
Julia: Yeah, I think it’s like…if you [speak up about BLM] you won’t be as successful, you won’t make as much money, and also whatever company…the celebrity belongs to, let’s be real, will not like that message.
MJ: Yeah. But what I was saying was that this white actor, he got more attention for his tears to [John Legend’s and Common’s] performance, as opposed to what they were saying and singing about and rapping about up on stage. I was like, um…what? He was crying? I can cry too, on command in fact. You know what I mean?
Julia: That just reminds me of Macklemore and how it took him to rap about…
MJ: Queer inclusiveness.
Julia: Yeah…it took him to talk about LGBTQ rights for it to be taken seriously, and he’s a straight, white, cis, man. So, it’s like…when the dominant group displays tears. or…
MJ: There you go.
Julia: Or concern for…
MJ: Their own passion.
Julia: All of a sudden it should be cared about because a member of the dominant class likes it, you know what I mean? And I think it’s really messed up. It doesn’t surprise me unfortunately.
In a longer digression, MJ and Julia discovered that Chris Pine was the white actor crying in the crowd during John Legend and Common’s performance at the Oscars.
Julia: So, Chris Pine crying…and Chris Pine has been completely silent on these issues. He doesn’t talk about it.
MJ: They have been completely silent on these issues. I’ve never seen him stick his neck out to speak on any of the injustices going on in America or in the world.
Um, we have a bullet point here on Janelle Monae and her performance on NBC.
Julia: I think it was at the end of a performance?
MJ: Yeah, she sang her song and stuff, and at the end, they pretty much cut her off. She was giving a speech about Black Lives Matter, let’s see if we can find what she begins to say…
Julia: “We will not be silenced.”
Julia: And then they silenced her.
MJ: Yeah, definitely–they cut to commercial. While she is talking about the injustices…and Janelle Monae has been on the forefront of a lot of these protests and her and another artist named Jidenna who is the guy who sings “Classic Man.” They’ve been together going to a lot of these protests.
Julia: And J Cole too, he’s been really great–being like “Don’t film me.”
MJ: Yeah! J Cole actually, if we can talk about him for a minute. First of all, he’s very attractive. Two, his newest album, 2014..something..his album had no featured artists, all of the songs are hits. He got a lot of praise for his album, and because he’s been so like, “Let’s talk about these injustices, let’s talk about them right now,” he just has sort have been blacklisted. I don’t know, it’s weird.
Julia: We know of him but I think he would have had a lot more popularity had he not been speaking. And I think he knows that. And I think it’s awful, but I’m glad he’s speaking. It just shows you what the industry does to those who speak up.
MJ: Yeah. And I think, going back to Nicki Minaj vs. Beyonce, I think Nicki Minaj is more aggressive–and now I don’t even want to use that word because it perpetuates what we were talking about earlier–
Julia: Adamantly going after what she wants.
MJ: Yeah and talking about certain things.
Julia: And is more unapologetic.
Julia: I mean I think Beyonce is also unapologetic but I think Nicki is more so like “I’m here.”
MJ: Yeah, “I’m here and you need to listen to me now because this is important.”
Julia: Yeah, also she is confident. Maybe that’s another thing. She at least portrays herself as very confident. And that’s what I love about her she always is encouraging her fans to stay in school and she always says, “Where are my pretty girls?” you know what I mean. She always does that, she’s like “Don’t be dependent on a man for anything.” She always says that. She said that in her VMA acceptance speech! She says it.
MJ: Yeah she says, “don’t depend on snotty little boys.”
Julia: She’s consistent, she makes them promise to stay in school.
MJ: There’s this amazing thing she says, she talks about how women are perceived–when they get their stuff done and they’re working toward what they want and they’re being confident–they’re often called a bitch. Whereas when a man does these things, he’s a…
Julia: He’s a boss.
MJ: I’m just like YES Nicki Minaj yes!
Julia: I remember she also talks about how she intentionally stayed very introverted and kind of shy because she was actually preemptively sensing and being careful–she kind of saw it coming that people in the industry would be like “Oh yeah she slept with so and so to get famous” and she’s been like “I’ve actively been alone and I’ve been separating myself from these people so that…”
MJ: So no one can ever say, you know “she slept with me for her big break.” Exactly.
Julia: One, that talks about the intense sexism that already exists within the industry that she’s entering into. It’s already something that’s been said, she talks about it.
MJ: I have her quote here, Nicki Minaj on the word bitch:
“When I’m assertive I’m a bitch, when a man is assertive he’s a boss. He’s bossed up. No
negative connotation behind “bossed up” but lots of negative connotation behind being a
MJ: I completely agree.
Julia: That just makes me think about what women choose to wear. Because what they wear says so much. Like being too frumpy, you’re a prude, showing more skin means you’re a slut, you know?
MJ: Wearing high heels, yeah.
Julia: It’s the same kind of thing, acting assertive, acting dominant, acting powerful…getting your stuff done and demanding that others get their stuff done, and not being apologetic about it. That is a bitch. I think also more than being a boss, being assertive is just being a man.
MJ: Yeah. I think people associate those words.
Julia: And I think it’s hard to unlearn. So the point here is that Nicki speaks on these things consistently. And she is strong in her opinions, she states things unapologetically, and I think
that is read as anger all of the time. And now I think Miley is relying on this old assumption that Nicki is angry all the time and that’s what she had in her mind when she was policing Nicki on how to talk about racism as if it’s her place to do that, which it’s not. And I think in Taylor’s case she just can’t see [the race part of it]. It’s interesting that Taylor read Nicki’s tweet (“I’m not always confident. Just tired. Black women influence pop culture so much and are so rarely rewarded for it”)…how could Taylor read that and think “Nicki’s talking about me,” you know? I think Nicki is just read as angry no matter what she does. And on one hand I think she may be okay with that, but on the other hand.. her tweet. “Just tired.” It can take a big emotional toll.
MJ: Wow, we unpacked a lot of things!
Julia: Yeah. We can sum it up I guess. We support Nicki’s tweets in this debacle.
MJ: If you the listener have any comments, leave them somewhere! We’ll figure out something.
Julia: What did you think about this situation? What do you think about Nicki’s point? Well, thank you for listening!
MJ: See you next time on Feminism 101! Peace!